Деминг - система глубоких знаний для трансформации.

Транскрипт одной из его лекций.

Я взял транскрипт с YT, перекопировал в текстовый редактор, чтобы исправить самые явные ошибки. Потом просто слушал на скорости 0.9х и исправлял сколько мог. После этого копипастил обратно в редактор и исправлял новый пакет ошибок. С пунктуацией биться не стал. Финальный проход сделаю потом.

Жирным отмечены самые главные идеи, которые меня задели.

Зачем? Слушать его невозможно, но он говорит много правильных вещей.

Его тезис о том, что изнутри компании невозможно получить глубоких знаний я так и не понял. Он постоянно льет воду.
Как я это понимаю: надо смотреть на Систему в целом, на потребности клиентов, поставщиков. Надо смотреть на мир во всей совокупности взаимосвязей между мясными мешками, природой, и результатами человечачьей деятельности. В общем, опять диамат. А я то уже был готов принять учение Светова, как единственно верное.

Now we have an hour to do a little thinking, maybe it's not too early in the morning to have a little fun. I just came here to chat with you about a few things. The main message that I have to offer is cooperation instead of competition. Economists have sold us down the river on competition. Competition is ruinous, destructive. This country can not afford it, nor can it afford destruction. I'd like to start with a flow diagram. Do you have words of used may apply to manufacturing but they you could draw flow diagram for any activity there's a there's a zero stage, I call it the zero stage which is ideas in people's heads, plans, predictions all the same thing any plan is prediction about a product or service that might have a market. Those ideas go into the paper which we could call design. Design calls for supplies of various kinds and here they are sources of supply. Services they come in, go through various operations and are distributed. We have customers.

Customers are the most important part of the prod production line. Consumers or customers whatever you like and then we carry out consumer research. We study the customer's needs and his misunderstandings. On that basis we redesign and make new plans. Redesign may call for a new kind of supply, new kind of services, a never ending cycle. It was this flow diagram crude as it is that started Japan on this path to quality and to preeminence in the world. This flow diagram I used with top Management in Japan, 1950 and with Engineers two hundreds of them. Incidentally top management consisted of 21 Men and that 21 Men represented 80% of the capital of Japan. I was talking to 80% of the capital when I talked to the 21 top people. Could you get 1% together here I'm not sure as you could. Now this is one of cooperation and of development work with your vendor suppliers everybody here has a job. The flow diagram is actually an organization chart as pointed out to me by my student Nita [...] just finished her doctor degree at Columbia University. My intern flow diagram is actually an organization chart. You can put names, put your name here, somebody belongs here, somebody belongs over there, somebody here and soon everybody on the job has a place here.

He has suppliers, people that work on it before he got it, his customers that use his work and one understands why he's on the job whom he depends on, who depends on him then he may take joy in his work. Otherwise he just has a job without knowing why he is doing anything. So the diagram puts meaning into the work pyramid. The pyramid does not show the consumer, the customer, tells nobody what his job is. Pyramid tells anybody who reports to whom and that's all that's important to be sure I did not say throw the pyramid away but it is not sufficient and as I said the consumers the most important part of the production line without the customer there's no production line and very interesting it is the customer not does not invent anything all that we have has come from the producer. No customer asked for electric lights and customers resisted them. No customer asked for photography, no customer asked for telegraph, no customer asked for telephone, no customer asked for an automobile, no customer asked for pneumatic tires, no customer asked for facts. All that we have has come from the producer. We want to talk here about a system. A system consists of components and it is a network of interdependent components. I said interdependent components that work together to try to accomplish the aim of the system.

A system must have an aim. without an aim there's no system that would have any meaning. A system must be managed; it will not manage itself. Left to themselves in the Western World components by that I mean people, teams divisions departments left to themselves become selfish, competitive independent, profit centers. Independent profit centers destroy the system. If the system of schools now does not try to draw one I may draw a system of schools. Tools in fact one I believe must draw a flow diagram for any activity in order to understand it. Now what is the boundary of a system? The bigger the boundary the more difficult it is to manage but our system must be managed, must have an aim, must be managed. Again unless it is managed the individual people, teams, divisions, departments become selfish independent profit centers. Each trying to make a name for himself and so far as they accomplish that they destroy the system. What is the boundary of a system well the bigger the better but the bigger it is the more difficult it is to manage. As I taught in Japan, the system must involve the whole country. Every bit of it. A prairie fire over the whole country. A remark from Richard C. Cass dean of Engineering University of Colorado would be appropriate I believe here. At this stage trying to understand a system he wrote To Me thus: "agricultural research in the United States began in 1887 following England's success at the Rothamsted experimental station about 75 mil north of London, a square mile of land Sir John Russell gave that square mile of land to the Ministry of Agriculture in 1840 for experimental work. Their results have improved production of food the world over and perhaps the greatest contribution from the Rothamstead experimental station is statistical Theory. Fisher was there, Frank Gates, William Cochran, and others.

Experimental stations began their work in this country. Agricultural agents began their work the experimental stations carry on research make the recommendations on what variety to plant and, when how,deep spacing of RADS fertilization effects of rainfall irrigation when and how they carry on research on fruit production of milk, meat, wool recommendations and technology are transferred to County Agricultural agents, to Farmers. Farmers have always been quick to learn and to change. They've adopted without hesitation any labor saving device or Machinery they have been in competition with that has always practiced cooperation. Knowledge about agricultural practices has spread to developing countries. Yield of crops has improved in some of these countries which has diminished the demand for wheat from North America. No such parallel exists between Agriculture and Industry. No such spread of Knowledge from America to Japan took place when. Dr Deming went to Japan in 1950 at their request to help the Japanese industry with quality. What he taught in Japan did not exist in America and still does not. He did not export to Japan American methods.

He thought they are the principle of a system Japanese management and Engineers listened to and learned to put into practice what he taught he relied on cooperation between people and between companies. Cooperation has always been a way of life in Japan. The boundary of the system would be all of Japan. Companies must work together in cooperation as you learn and teach others. The transformation in Japan must be a purifier that requires covering the whole country.

I'm afraid that typically here in this country the management spend most of their time worrying about competition in this form here's a pie. The question is how big is our piece of that pie? How can we make it bigger? Is that typically the way management spends their time here worrying about market share? What they ought to do is worry about expansion of the market. Working singly or together. worry about expanding the market. I think I have an illustration that we all understand. The three automotive companies in Detroit had in 1960 a monopoly on automobiles. They worried about the share of Market how much of the market have we got? How can we get a little more of that market? and the way they spent their time that's where their energy while they dickered thus for themselves worrying about share of Market that's worrying about the competition. There were a million families that needed Automobiles of lower first cost, greater dependability, lower running cost. a million easily a million waiting, not being served by Detroit. Japanese Automotive companies came in and filled that market or started to fill it up and the Americans squeal and squawk about competition.

They had the chance and mucked it and worried about market share. they should have been worrying about expansion of the market working singly or together. They should cooperate on expansion of the market instead of worrying about market share and everybody would win. As I said a system must have an aim and the aim is optimization of the whole system which does not mean optimization of any component. The component may operate not for individual profit, a component may take a beating in order to contribute more to the whole system and thus in the end everybody wins.

A system must include preparation for the future. My own work, your own work , what ought it to be 2 years from now 5 years from now. The world brings changes, the world is changing all around us. Slowest change is the slowest rate of motion in the United States. stagnant.

As I said, the system must include preparation for the future of today. They are the makers of carburetors. It didn't take them very long to go. The makers of carburetors made better and better carburetors at lower and lower cost as happy customers. Every automobile has a car carburetor. How could it run without one within the year they went into sudden demise? Oh yes they were used on heavy trucks for a while but no longer. Carburetors on motorcycles I think so. The fuel injector from the outside fuel injector came in, the carburetors went out. It took less than a year for the whole thing to happen. In due time the fuel injector will go out with a new engine. We have to prepare for the future or today are the makers of vacuum tubes. It was a day when a radio, a good one with eight vacuum tubes occupying space, had to carry it like a briefcase. 9 tube radio cost more was better in some ways or are they they're going maker of carburetors of vacuum tubes made better and better vacuum tubes more and more faithful reproduction of signals they went somehow people for some reason ran for the pocket radio just put it in your pocket integrated circuit came the pocket radio, vacuum tubes out of business did not take very long.

The future can be pretty sudden at times. As I said the system must include oper preparation for the future the of the carburetors did not prepare for the future they were they were in the business of making carburetors I say well can you blame them for making carburetors no no but the only trouble is that's why they're out of business. they've earned the business of making carburetors and that's why they went out of business they should have seen themselves in the business to put a stoyo metric mixture of fuel and air into the combustion chamber. somebody else did. came along with a fuel injector. A company can to some extent govern its own future.

Any group should have as its aim optimization over time of the larger system that the group operates in nearly a matter of selfish interest. In the end everybody wins, management of a system may require imagination. An example comes from the Department of Defense. The management of a group in the Department of Defense spent some of their meager budget for better housing for families in a naval base and for improvement of quarters for single men. The theory being that airplanes do not fly a second takeoff without people to fly them. Good housing for the people that fly the airplanes was to this management an important term in the equation.

Again for optimization a system must be managed it will not manage itself left to themselves in the Western World the components become selfish, independent profit centers each one doing a fine job thus destroying the system. There are delayed effects. For example, a company may spend $220,000 for training. The only thing we know is the $20,000 that shows on The Ledger known. The benefit we'll never know. Why do we do it? why do we spend $220,000 to train 10 people in a skill when I say training I'm talking about a skill I do we spend $220,000 for training? The benefit we shall never know we did on the basis of theory. We predict that there will be benefits that will far outweigh that $20,000 but the actual benefit we shall never know. You cannot measure it. The most important losses cannot be measured but they are the ones that we must manage. Only a matter of survival and remember this: survival is not mandatory. Nobody needs to survive.

A job description needs revision. There's no such thing as a job description and one understands the system or diagram. Anybody on the job anywhere depends on other people. Other people depend on him and you can see whom you depend on from the full diagram. You may see whom you depend on and who depends on you. Again with that knowledge one may take joy in his work.

You could teach me how to wash tables, teach me how to use a brush this way and the other way and around and around. How to use hot water brushes, soaps, and rags . I'm an expert at it. Spent money to train me. I learned to wash this table. I cannot do it. I cannot wash this table. No! I don't know what you mean to wash this table nonsense! There's no meaning to that, not until you tell me how you're going to use the table. What's the purpose? What's the next step? Oh, we wish to eat lunch on the table all right now I Know now I can wash the table I need it clean enough to eat off of. I can do it. liquor this Fitness good enough now here to tell me I'm going to use this table for an operating table Ha! totally different story. Now I scrubbed the table with scaling water and brushes and Rags on the top on the side I turned upside down do the bottom of the legs several times and I wash the floor or over a wide radius totally different job but until I know how you're going to use the table I cannot wash it

I must know what my job is. My job depends on my customers. The next stage depends on me. A system may be destroyed. Our system if we ever had one if your company ever had one and ask you this question is it destroyed very simple to destroy a system all you need to do is to draw a ring around design, redesign, draw a ring around these, any of them draw a ring around consumer search put rings around the various contributors components of the system. Make them independent profit centers and you destroy the system. I wonder how many companies work that way. I will give a little story. It's so easy to draw into and so easy to fall into. I spent months in New York. Anybody could do that, not this Monday. Usually Mondays teach at Columbia University 9 to 11 New York University in the afternoon after lunch they get on board or Detroit San Francisco or somewhere back to Washington home Friday night.

A woman called me up from Chicago. She was with a company known worldwide. She knew that I would be in New York on Monday and she wished to see me about something. Could she have a little more time? I said of course we'll work it out somewhere or other. She said to me that she would arrive at 7 when I arrived at Guardia field. 7 Monday morning. My head and she could see that her purpose to go to New York was to meet with other members of her company at about 1:30 in the afternoon.

She would deliver a paper her colleagues would criticize and would exchange points of view. She would arrive at 7:00 in the morning for a meeting to begin at 1:30. My head did a little arithmetic. That would mean 4:30 New York time onboard. In Chicago on board. 3:30 Chicago time on board. 1:30 leave home 00:30 half hour after midnight out of bed.

I bothered to go to bed. I said " look you'll be a total wreck for that meeting in the afternoon at 1:30 arrive 7 in the morning it'll be a physical wreck no sleep all night for very little it'd be unfit for your job well she knew that yeah but any other flight would cost her $138. All of her own pocket books. Of course she could not pay it. She was stuck and arrived at 7 in the morning. That was all clear to me . Now I know I understand your travel Department gets a special rate on that flight. Maybe the airline pays people to ride it. I think they ought to. I'm speaking of competition, open injury, anybody who gets into the business, let me go on the go on the side track just for a minute and proceed. Could anything be worse in our air service could anything be worse. wait a month. Open entry competition. You could start an airline between any pair of cities starting tomorrow. All you need is money, you don't need any to get a license, authorization to serve a pair of cities, pure formality anybody may do it. open injury. competition open injury. as a result of which there is one Airline between La Guardia and Detroit. One. There's only one way from Washington to Detroit: one Airline. There's only one from Washington to Nashville, one from Washington to St Louis. One to Kansas City. I think there are two to Chicago maybe three to Chicago Washington to Chicago

In most cases there's one only one no choice open entry. That's what you get with competition. A deregulation could anything be worse? Does anybody care enough to do anything about it? how bad will it have to get before there is enough noise about it? Is it bad enough, no? Why do we wait? Now let's go on with this story as we manage it now.

The Travel Department gets a plus to give them credit they must have got a low rate on that flight. Traveler negative unfit for her job better management travel Department take a negative. don't don't put her down there at the cheapest rate. pay a little more and put her down at the guard field at 11:30 or 12. She could still make it to her meeting and get some sleep. Being physically fit for the job traveler would then get pluses and the company's whole would win. The company as a whole would win by the travel Department taking a negative and in the end the travel department will win. there'll be more money to distribute or increase it in pay. Everybody wins if you stop to think about it. I have two systems: one is lose- lose competition lose-lose and the other one is win-win. everybody win there's nothing in between

There's no win lose no I don't think so. I might have thought that at one time I think I've grown up. it's lose-lose. Another example of pressure that a congressman exerts for a federal project to go to his state regardless of what would be best for the country as a whole.

The congressman tries to get Federal money for his state for any project. Never mind what's best for the country as a whole, get a from my state. Same pressure he has to exert to hold on to a naval base in his State some Naval bases look out of existence any heard but in my state. He tries to hold on to the naval bases in his State regardless of what is best for the country as a whole. He dare not think about the country as a whole if he did he would not be reelected. He'd have no chance. see what he got ourselves into and how do you get out how do you get out of it. Another example is wishing you could follow me around. Here are electrical components for the engine. let's put down the engine transmission on both as is $100 worth on the engine, $80 worth on the transmission, both together $180. a fine engineer redesigned some of the components and by trial on his knowledge learned that with $130 worth on the engine you need none on the transmission $130 total gain to the company $50 proposal rejected. Sure to save the company $50 proposal rejected by the financial people in charge of the engine. Our job is to decrease the cost of the engine, not to increase it. Your proposal will increase the cost of the engine. proposal rejected. That's nonsense! Our job is to reduce the cost of the engine you proposed to increase it. proposal rejected that would save the company $50 no consideration

Are we beginning to get the point that the company is not managed that's not managed? Have individual profit centers. It's a conglomerate of independent selfish profit centers. at each trying to do a good job. system destroyed. company destroyed.

Everything is not enough. everything best won't do it. Dr Russell Lov pointed out in a paper dated 1971 and probably before that I ought to know you could assemble all the best parts for an automobile never mind the cost they got blank checks all signed to pay for them never mind where they're made get the best of everything that there is you know it wouldn't run the parts would not work together you not have an automobile wouldn't run and a man named Hank in Michigan Bell Telephone Company Mr Hank Carabelli remarked to me about two years ago a company could have the best people in it in the whole country the best of everybody I mean the best in every office in that company the best and the company would be swallowed whole by another company by a competitor with people far less qualified but working together as a system just having great people is not going to do it maybe some of this applies to University what's a job in the University? what's a job in the hospital all that I say applies to education, applies to any service industry applies a health care hospital, manufacturing is not a particular difference wearing apparel a man wrote to me from the wearing apparel industry going to have a convention wanted some words from me special for the apparel industry nonsense apparel industry no different from any other all of have to % applies to a wearing apparel industry and any other

Applies to our schools. What about our schools? they not operated as a component in a system optimization is a obstructed and maybe it's even worse than universities in the schools optimization is obstructed by a city superintendent a county superintendent a School Board, District board, local government County government State Board of Education federal government assessed by standardized test of pupils comparisons between districts and states quality by inspection that's what it is quality by inspection the worst kind of management that there could be.

Dependence on Mass inspection for Quality. Anybody knows that's the way to go broke to turn out poor products deserve to go broke. this transformation into the fear of a system everybody when is an individual Affair. It starts with the individual. the individual must be transformed, they must transform themselves; it is discontinuous and it happens.

Let me read a letter that came to me. My marriage went from rough toR Rocky rougher to rockier. Eternal trouble win, lose each of us jockeying to be the winner and I took your 4-day seminar. I learned about system cooperation win-win. I explained this to my husband we thereupon worked together on every detail seeking win win both of us won. result both of us won who would wish to compete in a marriage. the winner would be married to a loser. who would wish to be married to a loser?

This letter raises a good question: who would wish to do business with the loser? Would anyone wish for his supplier to be a loser? Would he wish for his customers to be losers? would he wish for his employees to be losers? the employees of his suppliers of his customers. No one wishes to do business with a loser. We want everybody to win and we can have it that way by understanding a system.

Family Life the transformation affects family life in the first place. Parents cooperate and both win as we just learned parents will not rank their children. Do you rank your children and optimization? They would no longer teach and preach salvation through adversarial competition they would instead lead us in optimization of a system in which everybody would come out ahead.

We got a lot of learning to do. I don't need to learn survival is not compulsory. Nobody needs to do anything. What about price fixing? We have a lot of learning to do. if a monopoly or a group of us, any two of us or six of us that dominate a market would get together to fix prices we'd be fooled to set the price a cent higher than what would optimize the whole system. our suppliers, ourselves, our stockholders, our customers, the employees of suppliers, our own employees, employees of our customers, and the environment. a sent higher as all to optimize the whole system would lose business. we'll be losers. people will find alternate ways to get around use of our product or service if we don't price at the lowest possible price and of course a price may need to be adjusted as we learn and get more experience. any price decided upon today may because of new knowledge, new figures or because of technological developments may require reconsideration tomorrow.

A monopoly has the best chance to be of service to the world and a heavy obligation to do so for their own profit. The contributions to our welfare from monopolies have been great. One need only think of the contributions that have come from the Bell Telephone Laboratories. a monopoly responsible to nobody but to themselves.

What would the world be without the contributions from the Bell Telephone Laboratories? It would not be this world a totally different world. we would not be here, our economy would not support a meeting like this. Everybody in the United States is an innocent victim of the destruction by the antitrust division of the telephone system that the United States enjoyed till 1984, a monopoly it was but also the Envy of the world.

we no longer have a telephone system, we have telephones, a big difference. to compete with long lines of AT&T today a company would face barriers. a competitor would require tremendous investment in circuits research advertising if you were successful in capturing a sizable share of the long distance market he and AT&T would both operate at higher cost than one of them alone as a monopoly long distance rates would go up. we would all pay. we would all lose. there would be no winner.

The Antitrust Division three weeks ago accused a number of universities in the United States of working together to arrive at uniform figures for financial aid to students as if cooperation like this is a sin against the American people. Actually this kind of cooperation should be encouraged as it is a service in the interest of students.

Another wrong of the antitrust division against the people of the United States was to break up years ago. You don't even remember breaking up AT&T and Western Union. They formed a single company around 1905 antitrust division broke them up because they would dominate communication. That was wrong. The function of the antitrust division should be education but they would have to learn and where they are . This morning they ought to be here, they need to be here, they need it.

An example of a monopoly put on the service of the world is the de Consortium for diamonds they own the Kimberly mine. they've dominated markets for 130 years the diamonds they've dominated the market for diamonds for 30 130 years as I said the only Kimberly mine. If DeBeers and General Electric wish to work together on the price of diamonds they should be encouraged to do so provided they understand the system and the beer Consortium does understand the system.

There's no substitute for knowledge. We need knowledge of where we got it. School of Business, don't be silly. maybe yes in the future bmo University and some others are developing. We need knowledge. A system of profound knowledge we can talk about is a four part knowledge about a system appreciation for a system. We've just been talking about some knowledge about variation. lots of knowledge no. some knowledge about variation.

I'm very happy to learn that Mr Alfiecone is here and will talk. He's a forerunner on these ideas. cooperation in place of competition. fear of knowledge and psychology. one need not be imminent in any one of these four parts or on all four in order to understand profound knowledge and to make it work. These four parts are interdependent. one depends on the other.

For example, think of the entwinement between psychology and the theory of variation. for example as Harold Dodge in the Bell telephone Laboratories learned in 1926 published it in 1926. The number of defective items that an inspector finds depends on the size of the workload. the workload that you hand to him. give him 25 at a time he'll find every defective item give him 100 at a time you miss five of them. As a workload goes up the quality of his work goes down and the inspector, careful not to penalize anybody unjustly, will pass an item that is just outside the borderline.

An inspector will fudge figures to save the jobs of people to save the jobs of 300 people inspector will fudge the figures to make the place look good. a teacher not wishing to penalize anybody unjustly will pass a pupil that is barely below the requirement for a passing grade. fear invites wrong figures no one likes bad news you know what happens to people that bring Bad News Bears of bad news you know what happened to them anyone will present to his only good news. A committee appointed by the president of the company will report and come through with resolutions that the president wishes to hear they Jolly well better but they dare to do otherwise an individual they inadvertently seek to cast a Halo about himself. reports an interviewer about reading newspapers, sure New York Times is the best paper. And actually this morning he bought and read a tabloid statistical calculation and prediction based on warped figures may lead to confusion, frustration and wrong decisions.

What makes an orchestra great? here's interdependent. low on the left high on the right a bowling team just adds up for scores. swimming team. just add up the times. sure when they're not playing they cooperate to help each other. your business, your school is here. The orchestra's business it's School Hospital manufacturing no matter what.

High interdependence between components. take the Royal philharmonic Orchestra of London. Why is it great for great players? No. they're good but they're not the best in the country. Why is the orchestra great? cooperation. every player there, every player in the orchestra is there to support the other 139. That's why there is support for the other 139. Fear of knowledge most important course you ever took. is in the theory of knowledge. any plan requires prediction. how we going to get out of this room how we going to find our way over to the hotel? how would I get home tonight? I predicted my automobile? I predict that my automobile will start and run or I predicted the bus will come I predicted the train will come. planning is prediction. any assumption is prediction management is prediction as Dr try is here in the audience said some years ago management is not playing games management is prediction.

What should be the basis for negotiation between any two people between countries between divisions? between union and management? between competitors? What ought to be the basis for negotiation should be optimization of the whole system system. Everybody wins! I said everybody, everybody wins. that should be the basis why don't we understand? Is it that difficult? nonsense that's not difficult. We've been sold down the river in competition. What we need is cooperation. Everybody wins.

Our main learning must be in the man of the people we're destroying our people. grades in school gold stars ranking people. ranking salesman. reward at the top. punishment at the bottom for people, teams, divisions. Merit system, incentive pay over justification in the form of money. paid the people for simply doing their jobs. it hurts their pride. get accustomed to almost anything. get calloused accustomed to obedience. I haven't heard as bad as I did the first time. people can get accustomed to almost anything.

We've gotten accustomed to a lot of practices that are our ruination. Profound knowledge comes from outside. Do not come from inside. A system cannot understand itself. One may learn a lot about ice and know a little about water. The transformation in this company may be water instead of ice. You can learn a lot about ice, not very little about water. A system cannot understand itself. enlargement of a committee will not produce profound knowledge. How could it? popular vote will I give you the right answer how could it how could it popular vote is not going to produce profound knowledge.

I'm raising some pretty important questions. They're terrifying. This question came to me in the seminar and I'm running out of time for another minute. This question came to me in a seminar. "Please elaborate on your statement that profound knowledge comes from outside. outside the system. aren't the people in the system the only ones that know what is happening?" The answer is this: the people that work in any organization know what they're doing but they will not by themselves learn A Better Way. their best, their best efforts and hard work only dig deeper into the pit that they're already in. their best efforts and hard work do not provide an outside view of the organization. a system cannot understand itself. one may learn a lot about ice, not very little about water. time is up. I get off the platform.

[Applause]

I: got about 10 minutes for question we have come on here we have allowed about 10 minutes for questions after each of the presentations today and to facilitate that if you have a question there will be microphones in the aisles and go to one of the microphones you may even have to get inline if there are a number of questions and I'll try to point to the person up here we'll try to cover as many of those we can in the 10 minutes. state your name and the organization you're from and then ask your question. Now does anybody out there have a question? one over here. We got a microphone.

Q1: Yeah, yes you can hear me. I've been hearing comments from Management in this country that all we need to do now is look at the Japanese problems with their economy and World Markets, the recession and the stock market. management seems to be using this as an excuse for not implementing the work that needs to be done following your philosophies. Could you comment on the Japanese situation and how we can counter those accusations?

D: I only learned to listen during the past 15 seconds. the speaker right here and I was try to listen otherwise he did you did you get it he says that he observes that some Management in the United States seems to be taking taking Solace or comfort in the current problems that the Japanese economy is is taking or has at the moment and uh do you have any reaction or comments about that is that is that a fair?

Well if I had to get my happiness from other people's discouragement and disappointments I don't think I could be very happy. The way to be happy should be a win-win basis. that's not the way to that's not that's not a good life. I'm not sure that we understand Japan in the first place. I don't understand at all. stock There is almost non-existent. their Capital comes from the banks. The 21 men that I talked with governed 80% of the capital of Japan. stock equity is not a heavy contributor to Capital. totally different from what it is in this country. Here to raise money you sell stock. They don't do that in Japan, which is different in Japan. we don't understand them. and it's a matter of relationship, supplier. Some Americans complain that it is hard to do business in Japan. it if you don't know how. you think that a company in Japan and the supplier or suppliers are going to break up a relationship that has existed for 30 years of continual improvement and better and better understanding of better and better quality at lower and lower prices. Do you think they're going to break that up to let an American company come in and not go there and offer something they don't have? well that's a different story. to try to compete with what they do have and break up relationships only lead to disappointment. Americans cannot understand cooperation. They think lower prices will do it. no no it's not so we gotta learn to live in this world we here in America have not learned to live in this world. We've been living on our own. We think we made the world. the world is what we made it those days are over. There was a time when that was correct. In the year 1920 this country made North America made half the manufactured products of the world. Frederick Taylor and Henry Ford. high volume mass production, low cost mass production. Those days are gone. Those days are gone. High volume low cost mass production has moved out of this country in Mexico , Taiwan, Korea, other places, Singapore. I'm going to Singapore in a few weeks. Our educational system is not able to support this country in the times that have fallen upon us. We're going to have to live by brains not by high volume low cost production those days are gone. We may make great contributions to the world and we're not prepared for the future. The future is now upon us and we're unprepared. I can't learn. sorry take so much time.

Q2: you mentioned that profound knowledge uh it's best to come from the outside I'd like to know a little more why internally people cannot help themselves why do they get stuck? and then secondly what kind of help would be uh the best?

D: Well, you said that people cannot help themselves. People do not generate profound knowledge. As a good rule, profound knowledge comes from outside, never from inside. Again, let me read that question in a seminar: don't the people on the job know more than anybody about it? They do not. they cannot by themselves see the system that they work in profound knowledge comes from outside and By Invitation. it'll not come knocking at your door you have to invite it. another one.

Q3: Dr Deming I work in an industry that's whose sales have always been based on sales people working on commission and uh I've been given an argument by our management and keeping that system up and that how do we how do we equate the Salesforce from one salesperson who's selling 120% of his goal versus one who's under his goal and and how do we keep the sales people happy and and motivated to continue to sell on a team basis?

D: Your top salesman may be doing a tremendous harm to your top salesman. You rewarded him for ruining the company. Follow me around the top salesman selling what people don't want or he may have a product that sells anywhere. reward the weatherman for a pleasant day. same thing . We have a lot of learning to do and we don't need to learn survival is not compulsory. Nobody needs to learn. incentive pay. Jim mail is here I think is on the program, Gallery furnish company in Houston. On the 1st of January 1991 he put the salesman on salary. salaries not commission result sales up up up every month better than the month before and the salesmen are happy now they're not competing with each other they cooperate with each other. He took this seminar two or three times and got that idea into his head and he was right. have another instance you probably have your own.

Q: I can't see whether there any other we got one more out there alright yes an education is Dr Demings indicated we are so accustomed to grades Merit PID Rank and and how do we really build into that process now if we're going to go through a transformation would he talk about you know the process process in education of making the transformation?

D: the first step is the individual must transform metano metano would be the better word a Greek word means complete change that's the first step the individual changes he has to then to change his organization. our time is up as I said our school teaches information not knowledge. information not knowledge. you pass the examination by cramming your head full of information. information is not knowledge there never was a time when he had so much information anything that happens anywhere in the world is known within a minute throughout the rest of the world that's not that's not knowledge that's information. we're confused. examination in school depending on how how much information somebody can cram into his head that is not knowledge and that is not teaching and that is not learning

I: thanks very much Dr Deming.